Episode 6: Supporting Teens and Young Adults Through Play and Books

In this final episode of Pages in Play, we explore the transformative journey from adolescence into young adulthood—and how bibliotherapy and play therapy can support young people through this complex stage.

Teenagers are navigating big questions around identity, belonging, relationships, and purpose. In this episode, we unpack how stories and play create safe, powerful spaces for self-exploration, emotional processing, and connection.

We discuss:

•  Why adolescence may extend into the early 30s—and what that means for parenting and support 
•  How books help teens explore identity, reduce isolation, and build emotional insight 
•  The evolving role of play therapy for teenagers (it’s not just toys!) 
•  Practical ways to connect with teens, including walking “book clubs” and shared activities 
•  A powerful real-life case study illustrating how play therapy supports grief, anxiety, and identity formation 
•  Thoughtfully curated book recommendations to support teens navigating identity, relationships, and mental health 

We close the series with reflections, gratitude, and ways to continue the conversation.

⏱️ Timestamps / Chapters

01:05 – Introduction & why adolescence is a key developmental stage
02:00 – Teen identity: “Who am I?” and the role of narrative
03:22 – Research on adolescence extending into the early 30s
04:30 – Brain development, hormones & emotional shifts in teens
09:53 – What play therapy looks like for teenagers
13:34 – Giving teens agency in reading choices
16:29 – Case study: Willow (from Counting by Sevens)
18:00 – Anxiety, identity, grief & transitions in adolescence
20:00 – Inside the therapy room: observation, resistance & trust-building
24:00 – The importance of endings in therapy and development
25:46 – Narrative therapy & re-authoring your story
28:20 – Staying connected: curiosity, presence & shared experiences
29:21 – Book recommendations for teens (identity, belonging, mental health)
38:52 – Final reflections on the series
40:41 – Closing thoughts & goodbye

Book Recommendations

• Are you there, God? It’s Me, Margaret by Judy Blume.
• Counting by 7s by Holly Goldberg Sloan
• Every Day by David Levithan
• Turtles All the Way Down by John Green
• Heartstopper by Alice Oseman
• The Final Year & The First Year by Matt Goodfellow
• Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe by Benjamin Alire Sáenz
• Bibliotherapy: The Healing Power of Reading by Bijal Shah
• The Poet X by Elizabeth Acevedo

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to Pages and Play, the power of bibliotherapy and play therapy on young minds. On today's episode, we're journeying with our children as they move through teenagers into young adults. It's so lovely to be back here, Doria, and this one is an extra special episode for me because it's our last one of this series. I'll be sharing lots of bibliotherapy insights and book recommendations as well. So adolescence is such an extraordinary period of life full of growth, questioning, and transformation. And when we think about supporting young people through this stage, I often think of it as a time of building personal narratives that are going to support them. And when we look at teenagers and we look into their minds, what are they after? What are they thinking? What are they looking to explore? What are they looking to understand? What are the issues that they're facing? And essentially, teenagers are actively trying to understand their own narratives. They'll often be exploring questions such as who am I, where do I belong, what do I believe in? How do I relate to the world around me? And books can become these incredibly powerful companions for them during this period because stories give young people language for experiences. They're only just beginning to understand. They can try on identities through characters, explore emotions safely, and encounter ideas that help them shape their own sense of self. And so bibliotherapy becomes less about reading to a young person, as we might with children, and more about reading alongside them, reading with them. And sometimes it's wonderful to start a parent teen book club where you read a book together and discuss these. You know, just one parent, one child. Maybe if you're going on a walk together, it's the perfect time to discuss some of the topics, issues that are brought up by some of these books. And on a walk, you're forced to talk to each other because there's no screens, there's no other distractions.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Oh, what a lovely idea. And I think at this point in their development, their interests are coming out, which is something I'm going to be talking about a lot today. And so they'll often come to you with books that they want to read and their interests. So it's such a lovely beginning of their adulthood. There was some recent research that was conducted by the University of Cambridge, I think was in the news about a month ago. It was really fascinating because it demonstrated that uh adolescence can continue until the early 30s.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

Oh wow. I saw that before, yeah. But I thought it was the mid-20s, but early 30s. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

When you think about all the things you were saying about, you know, who you are, where do you belong, what do you believe in, and how do you relate to the world around me? So it really challenges that conventional belief that adolescence ends at 18. According to the study, the most crucial periods of brain development occur at the ages of 9, 32, 66, and 83. And these findings really highlight the importance of recognizing various developmental stages in the brain and identifying potential vulnerabilities and risks during these pivotal times. So the brain networks are still maturing and they're becoming more organized in this period. And then when you get to the age of 32, there's much more greater stability. So pre-adolescence brings a major emotional cognitive changes influenced by the age, gender, puberty, timing hormones, and there's this rapid hormonal shift that can lead to things such as anger and confusion as children are seeking independence. And they're in this process of individualization as well, and it often can result in parent and care of child tension. And you will often see individuals at this age really having a preference for peer understanding and in their friendships. That's so vital at this point. And so during this stage, self-perception becomes more externally focused. So as the frontal lobe is maturing, reasoning and impulse control improve but remain incomplete. So it's prompting impulsive decisions and immediate gratification. So there's all these things going on. And in the early onset of puberty, there can be increasing stress over differences in physical development, and these changes can affect self-esteem and self-concept. And so this can often be confusing for adults because children can appear mature, but lack the maturity in other ways in the behavioural aspects as well. But healthy parent-child relationship can often buffer against low self-esteem and negative outcomes. So they support those safe decisions and well-being throughout pre-adolescent and interadolescents. But I'm wondering what this means for bibliotherapy supporting young people over this period of life and for a much bigger period of their lives than we first thought.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Well, firstly, sorry, I'd like to just say that this research really highlights that adolescence isn't a short phrase that we simply get through. It's a much longer developmental journey than we once believed. And it's fascinating to hear how we can still influence our children into young adulthood. So that's quite exciting but also daunting because I feel like responsibility continues. But from a bibliotherapy perspective, it's actually incredibly encouraging because it just means we have a longer window of opportunity to support young people through stories and narrative. And like we said, teenagers are often navigating intense emotional landscapes, questions about identity and belonging and friendships and purpose and existence and sometimes even grief and transitions or uncertainty, anxiety about the future. So books are providing this space where these experiences can be explored safely and privately. And I always say the novel is the greatest self-consciousness tool in a way, because it's really bringing so much awareness to us through its own stream of consciousness format, I guess, especially like literary fiction, which is very character-driven. Unlike advice, which teenagers often resist, stories and narrative invite reflection rather than instruction. And a young person may reject being told what to do, but they're often very open to seeing how a character navigates a similar struggle. I remember for me how personally life-changing Judy Bloom was, particularly growing up in Nairobi, Kenya, where some of the more controversial issues around themes such as puberty and sex education were not discussed much in my own conservative Jane community, or they had very different views and beliefs to what I was hearing from my peers. In my book, Bibliotherapy The Healing Power Reading, I write about my struggles of starting my own puberty journey and the shock of it and the shock of periods. And then reading Margaret's experience in Are You There God? It's me, Margaret, this famous Judy Bloom book really reassured me that how I felt and what I felt was completely normal. And that extended to the ambivalent feelings I had towards boys, too. So Judy Bloom was very literally a literary fairy godmother. And so we can see that when readers see their stories represented and when they encounter a character wrestling with similar questions, it can be really validating and reduces their sense of isolation. They're not alone in this experience that they find themselves in. And then the insights and pathways and ways of being and representation and everything that is offered in a rich character narrative can really be empowering and offer a real source of hope during times of uncertainty. And Friday, I'd love to hear a bit more about the process of play therapy in supporting teenagers because the approach, I assume, changes from children to teenagers. And also I'd love to understand how it can complement bibliotherapy.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Yeah, absolutely. I just wanted to touch on what you were saying. And I love the idea of Judy Bloom being like a literature fairy godmother through navigating this landscape of adolescence. It's such a powerful message, isn't it? That you're not alone and that there can be so many moments in this adolescent period where you do feel entirely alone. And so that's such a powerful device. So you were asking me about the process of play therapy and supporting teenagers. So play, and I think we tend to have a quite limited view of what play is. We tend to associate it purely with childhood. And so I really want to open this up, actually, so that play can involve a whole host of things. It can involve social, creative, active strategies. There's so many different forms of play. So things like sports, board games, computer games, even activities such as cooking and crafting. There's a whole range of things out there that we engage with. Even word play and how we socialise and how we interact with each other. These are the forms of play. And so really we're looking at offering our teenagers a non-judgmental space to explore the different roles and discovering themselves. And so that's what play therapy or this child-led therapy would be looking at. Parents often notice a shift in their child as they're becoming teenagers with their relationships, their interests, their style, as they're seeking their authenticity without fear of judgment. And so adults should really model the honest behavior. As teenagers respond better to transparency, teenagers are very focused on whether you're being sincere and open and making sure that there are no hidden or mixed messages within your interactions. So I'd say very much looking at being curious, being transparent, being authentic. They're starting to find their own journey. They're starting to find their own interests that may be far removed from what your interests are. And we really need to focus in on them and their excitement. So spending time together, and you were talking, Bajora, about the power of walking and being alongside, because it allows for those open conversations. The conversations when you're in a car, when you're walking, when you're alongside and not face to face, feel much less pressured for a teenager, especially. So enjoy those shared car journeys, walking, all those things together. But even shared activities such as baking, crafting, watching sports, gaming, all provide those opportune moments. Making sure that those activities aren't about completing a task or competitive. The real goal is building the relationships and encouraging conversations. It's when they are ready to come and talk to you about it. But if we're providing as many opportunities for those open conversations, and we've been doing that all the way through, then they are more likely to come to us when they need to. So focus on the interaction, not on the finished product or the competition, listening more. So offering those opportunities instead of jumping in with our own stories and our own solutions, which can be really tricky sometimes. Don't worry, the conversations go quiet, simply providing opportunities for connection. Teenagers are in the process of individualization. All these things are really building up at this point. So be curious in what interests them and let them come to you when they're ready to come and talk to you.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

I 100% agree with everything you're saying, especially that building that connection piece and listening more. And I think we've mentioned it before in this podcast series about the importance of listening, because it really is the key to building that connection with your children, especially as they become teenagers and perhaps want to interact with you a little bit less. When I work with teenagers, the bibliotherapy approach shifts quite a bit from how I work with younger children. So with younger readers, we might guide the reading a little bit more, but with teens, it's often about offering significant choice and agency in order to offer complete ownership over the stories that they engage with. It's such a big part of that individuation process that you mentioned. And the conversation might start with questions like what stories or literature do you usually enjoy? You know, is there a character you've really connected with recently? Is there a story that made you feel understood? These are again very open questions, and who knows where the conversation will lead. But we should very much encourage our children to talk about it openly and explore these books that are really resonating with their interests and their emotional experiences. And then another key part of working with teenagers is recognizing that the literature doesn't always have to be the classic traditional novels from the Western canon. For some young people, it might be graphic novels or spoken word poetry or fantasy worlds or memoirs or even song lyrics. There is far more breadth and depth in the narratives that they can engage with. What matters is that the story and the narrative becomes a bridge into conversation, which I've mentioned before. And often a teenager will talk more openly about a character than about themselves, with those reflections revealing what they're processing internally, even some of the questions that they're asking is a revelation often. And if we just pay attention to that, we might pick up a lot more in the fringes of those questions than sometimes even with what they're saying. So bibliotherapy at this stage really becomes a collaborative exploration. And sometimes they may need more time and space to reflect. So I really do suggest that they journal in their own time and bring their reflections to the next set of bibliotherapy sessions so we can discuss these in more detail, or they can even talk it through with a parent. If they don't like to write, they can perhaps do some art or drawing or record audio notes, which is becoming quite a thing right now as more and more people are drawn to audio formats. I also wanted to just come back to you because I know you had an excellent client story that demonstrates how you use play therapy with teenagers. And I'd love to just hear a little bit more on this.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

Yeah. So I was going to talk to you a little bit about Willow, who you might remember if you've read Counting by Sevens by Holly Berg Sloan. A wonderful story. So Willow is now 14 years old. She's highly intelligent. She has lots of interests, and she has a deep interest in nature and also in medical conditions. She lost her parents age 12, and at that point, she also formed a whole collection of new and unexpected friends and formed a new support network, which became part of a new family, as you may have read in Counted by Sevens. So Willow is now 14. She's experienced a heightened level of anxiety and is finding going to school more and more difficult. There are multiple reasons for raised anxiety in teenagers. Some of the common themes that we see in the therapy room are around belonging, friendships, relationships, and transitions. For example, many young people experience anxiety as they question who they are and struggle with self-image and self-concept and navigating that process of forming their new identities. So play therapy provides a secure environment for that exploration of concepts and encourages authenticity, fostering that self-esteem and agency. This might include worries of fitting in, feeling different, exploring aspects of gender or sexuality. Relationships play a significant role all through our lives, but especially at this point. So there might be difficulties with friendships, family dynamics, romantic relationships can often contribute to a heightened anxiety. And through play and storytelling, acceptance and validation can occur. Moreover, transitions as they're moving schools or changes within families, or even just that shift from childhood to adulthood can bring whole issues with uncertainty and stress. And in play therapy, these themes tend to emerge naturally as young people are expressing themselves through games, art, music, computer games, imaginary play, creative outlets. And this allows them to process those complex feelings in a safe and supported environment. So addressing these issues through therapeutic play can help teens gain confidence, build resilience, and help develop healthy ways of coping with life's challenges. So Willow, as you may know, lost her parents when she was 12 and had multiple life-changing transitions all before she started high school. So Willow lives in the States, and as she's just turned 14, she's just started high school. So when she first comes into the therapy room, Willow is very, very observant. So she spends a great deal of time looking at what the room provides. I can see she's trying to decipher what all of the materials are there for. She also spends a great deal of time studying me. So she's looking at me, she's doing it sideways, but I can see that she's studying my face, she's studying my clothes, she's studying my posture. Everything about me is under scrutiny. And in this space, that's absolutely fine. I'm allowing her time to work out who I am and what she can gauge from all those things that she can see. She then starts to question how much I know about her life. And she talks about her previous experiences within counseling, whether that be with Dell or whether that be with her grief counsellor. She's unclear what to do. This is a very different environment for her, and this quite often happens with teenagers coming into play therapy or the creative arts therapy room that's non-directive, that it can seem quite an alien world that I'm not directing. So at this point, I'm providing her with some directive activities that she can choose from to make her feel a bit more comfortable. As we know, at this point, like I said, there's a huge amount going on in the brain at this point with synaptic pruning. So things that aren't useful that they have from childhood are starting to be pruned down. But the things that are really important, so the marlination, which is the strengthening, is vital. So all these things are happening in the adolescent brain development. So they're redefining those neuroconnections that are important and they're improving their effectiveness. Okay, so like I said, the pruning is removing any unused connections while the mylination is increasing those signal speeds between the cells, enhancing reasoning, abstract thought, impulse control. But these changes that are supporting the shift from childhood to adulthood occur unevenly over the brain region, which leads to the inconsistent development of decision making, self-regulation, impulse control during that adolescent period. So Willow is starting to talk to me about the changes that she's noticing in relationships and belonging. So at this point, Willow is questioning therapy. So she's really starting to open up discussions of what's happening in therapy, what is the point in therapy? And I can see a little bit of withdrawal because this is the resistance point. And we need to open these discussions up. So at this point, I am being transparent within that discussion. What is the point and what are we doing in these sessions? And we're having really open conversations as she's trying to work out whether this is something that she wants to continue or this is something that she wants to start. And at this point, she's starting to talk to me about things that she's interested in. And I'm noticing that we're working side by side as she's drawing these big artworks about all the things that she's interested in. I'm noticing that there's lots of repeating patterns that look like they're from nature, from plants, plant structures, but also then she's repeating various bacteria or virus structures as well. So she's doing that envelope and the envelope protein and the virus genogram, all of that. But as she's drawing these spirals and showing me these themes that she's interested in, the medical interest is starting to fade. And as she's talking to me, she's realizing that she's forgetting some of those medical terms that she used to rely on so much when she was younger. But the patterns for the plants and the flowers and all of those structures are increasing and they're becoming stronger. And so through the artwork, she's really exploring her identity, her relationships, and she's talking to me about her family and her parents within that. And we're really starting to see some of those models of grief that we talked about in the last episode, especially Lois Tolkien's, and that grief of her parents is still very prominent within her schema in terms of how she sees herself and her life. But she's starting to build these beautiful, elaborate patterns of, like I said, leaf structures, plant structures, and she's bringing in the complex of her life, the trauma of losing her parents. And as she says, she's lost two sets of parents, but her identity as well, and the transitions that she's gone through at school, the loss of her support network, and also this beginning of her individualization and identity forming and how those things are shifting as well. So as we're coming towards the end of our work together, she's starting to come up with her own plans of her education, how that might work, and how she sees herself, her understanding of herself. And as we come to the end of our work together, she is playing out endings. Because of that grief and loss, quite often we will see the repeated play of endings. And that's so important that within the playtherapy sessions, we are constantly playing out endings. And I'm giving her that structured ending when she's had experience of endings not being structured, being surprises and being really difficult for her to deal with. So at that point, she's really playing out those. And so by the end, we have got to a point that she's had this structured ending, had this positive ending, and she's been able to show me all of her many interests and her real mastery and where she's going as she's going forward and out of the playroom.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

This is such a wonderful story, Freya. As you were talking there, I kept thinking about narrative therapy and how this artwork was actually allowing her to bring together her narrative, integrate some of the themes and issues that she's been thinking about and struggling with, and the processes allowing her to parallel process her emotions and then solidify her final insights and actions that she'd like to take forward. And I feel like this is so similar to what we call narrative therapy and bibliotherapy, which is all about reauthoring your story and having a positive closure and positive ending and having real takeaway actionable items and things that we can do to move forward.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

I think it's entirely that in that we are not going to be able to get rid of those neuron connections when we've had trauma. They're not going to go away. But what we can do is we can build new neuron connections, new pathways, and especially with endings by playing out those planned endings, those safe endings. These children who've experienced loss or grief or who've experienced trauma are able to have security in that. That actually endings can look quite different, and those neuron pathways become strengthened in that point so that child can feel that security.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

Yes, it's wonderful. I think endings is such a big topic, and I think it deserves almost a podcast episode of its own. Although I know we touched on grief in the previous episode, so a lot of that will apply, but I think practicing good endings is part of being a good human being, giving people the closure, not ghosting people, and vice versa, demanding or encouraging strong endings, whichever side of the equation that you're on.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

Yeah. And we see that a lot in terms of talking about separation and anxiety and really looking at making sure that you make time for that proper ending. Even though, as an adult, we know that's a short-term ending, they're just going to school, but actually having time to give that proper ending for that child, they know that security, they know that there's safety, they know that there's going to be a coming back, there's going to be a reunification.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

And again, coming back to that episode that we talked about, hide and seek, that's important in terms of very secure attachment, all part of the secure attachment theory as well.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

Absolutely. So I think in terms of the play prompt, even though they are individualizing, there's still going to be a need for that connection. And so that might look different in terms of that might not be play in quotations. That may be spending those moments side by side, shared activities that may look very different. That may be being on a car journey and having those conversations. And like I said, it's really focusing on that being present and attentiveness. And at this point, it's such a beautiful moment in their lives where their interests are starting to blossom. So show an interest, be curious, let them show you who they are and what their interests are, and really take delight in that. It's a wonderful moment of them becoming who they're going to be as adults. So, Virgil, what books would you go to?

SPEAKER_00 28:15

Oh, thanks, Freya. Oh, there's so many wonderful books, as always. For teenagers who are exploring identity, relationships, mental health, complexities of growing up, there's a whole spectrum out there. But I think for readers exploring identity and belonging, I often recommend the poet X by Elizabeth Acevedo, which I mentioned in the previous episode. But it has to be mentioned again. It's written in verse that really captures the voice of adolescents so beautifully, that sense of trying to find your own voice within the expectations of family and society. But also another powerful book is Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe by Benjamin Alera Sanz. And here, Aristotle is an angry teen with a brother in prison. And Dante is a know-it all who has a really unique perspective on life. And when the two meet at the swimming pool, they seem to have nothing in common. But as they start spending time together, they develop a special friendship that changes their lives and lasts a lifetime. And it's through this friendship that Aristotle and Dante will learn the most important truths about the universe and the people they want to be. It's very much a philosophical novel, bringing in all these threads of discussion points on friendship, identity, self-acceptance. But many young readers will really resonate with it and find it deeply affirming. So I really do enjoy recommending that one. I haven't heard of that one, so I'm going to be off to the bookshop to buy that one next. Yeah, and I'll put all of these in the show notes. So, you know, all the links there as well. For those navigating anxiety or mental health challenges, John Green is a brilliant author for that. So I always suggest his book, Turtles All the Way Down, which is a really helpful book on anything for anxiety or OCD or even self-doubt, imposter syndrome, all of that. So I really would suggest picking that one up for anxiety or any sort of mental health challenge. Then we have graphic novels like Heartstopper by Alice Osman. I have recommended this book a lot in my own book, Bibliotherapy, The Healing Power Reading, but it's really an accessible novel exploring many emotional themes, and it's highly relatable, particularly around relationships, identity, and belonging. So please do grab one of those for your teenagers if you haven't already. And of course, poetry as well can be especially meaningful during adolescence. Poetry offers a way to engage with emotion in very tiny powerful moments, which often can be easier when attention or emotional capacity feel stretched. And in the world that we currently live in, with us all having very short attention spans, I think poetry is a great go-to option. But ultimately, the most important thing is finding the right book for the right reader at the right moment, what's really resonating with somebody at a particular moment in time. But for I know I've mentioned a few there, but I always love hearing your suggestions. What would you recommend?

SPEAKER_01 31:30

So, Bigil, like after you mentioned the Poet X, I think I mentioned I read that straight away. And the Poet X and Turtles All the Way Down are so emotive, so raw as books for adolescents. I think they're incredibly powerful. So I definitely would recommend those ones that you recommended as well. Also, I would definitely recommend County by Sevens, um, the one that I based for the case study that I was talking about. So that's Hollyberg Sloan, gorgeous book, a lot again, grief loss, as well as trying to work out your identity and sense of belonging. Everyday by David Letheman. It's a story of a genderless person who wakes up in a different body each day, and it really calls into question things about identity and love and life. Also, I just want to come back to Alice Osman, the Heartstopper series. It's so fantastic and accessible. But also within book four of the Heartstopper, she really starts to talk about mental health. It's a really powerful book in terms of looking at healthy relationships and not taking on sole responsibility for somebody else's mental health, which I think is a really important aspect to look at when you're talking to adolescents, and that quite often comes up that they feel that they should be able to solely emotionally support a peer. And so making sure that they are having these healthy conversations, especially around things like mental health. So I would recommend all of those books. There's so many. There are so many. Amazing adolescent books. And it always fills me full of delight going into bookshops now and libraries and seeing how big the range is now. It's huge. It's absolutely fab. So just go and explore.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

Go and explore. I do have some ETZ of reading lists on my website. And we have the personalized book prescription service, which is very tailored for clients in terms of exactly honing in on what they might be looking for. If you're looking for something specific across a certain genre that you enjoy, so do feel free to use that service as well.

SPEAKER_01 33:41

Before we finish our final episode of series one, we wanted to say thank you to our listeners and we welcome any suggestions for future episodes to support you and your child. Please do send any suggestions to vigil at booktherapy.io or Freya at playrefuge.co.uk, along with any comments or any book recommendations that you would like to send to us. Please do visit my website at playrefuge.co.uk for playtherapy services, children's books on playtherapy, online consultations or training. Also in collaboration with the wonderful Cove therapy studio Beth Joy, I will soon be releasing a new webinar supporting parents and carers whose children are in therapy. Please do visit Bidjil's website at www.booktherapy.io. If you would like a bibliotherapist in your pocket, you may find her book, Bibliotherapy The Healing Power of Reading, a helpful companion. It is also available at any bookshop you may shop at. Bidjel creates book prescriptions and online training in bibliotherapy. So please do check out her website for more details.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Thank you so much, Freya. And I'm so sad this is our last episode for the season, Freya. As I mentioned earlier, but I've really enjoyed chatting about play therapy and bibliotherapy and talking to our listeners about how we can bring more of this into all our lives, especially our children's lives, in a positive way that benefits their mental health and well-being. There's so much, both play therapy and bibliotherapy have so much in common. So I'm really glad that we got to do this episode and share our approaches. But I hope you've all really enjoyed the episodes of this podcast series and we'd love to hear your feedback. And also if there's anything you would have liked to have seen covered that we should include in future episodes. As Freya says, please do email us. I will put all our contact details in the show notes.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

It's been such a joy to do this series with you, Bidgel, and it's been so great to go into some of the aspects or issues that our parent and carers out there might be experiencing. So as Bidgel said, please do get in touch if there's anything that you would like us to cover in more detail or go into in a future series.

SPEAKER_00 36:09

Until then, stay well and happy playing and reading.